An Outline

Hey guys, I was thinking through all the different aspects that we have discussed the last 2 weeks, so I put together a rough outline of those topics. I'm just trying to get the ball rolling so definitely throw out ideas or changes.

It wouldn't really let me make an outline, so the bold are the main points and the italics are subpoints. Looking at it, it seems like Rob might have too much to handle, so just give some ideas on splitting the material. Maybe someone else could do the "background" stuff?? There are a couple other things of which I wasn't sure who would or wanted to cover that issue...so, whatever you guys think or want to do or change, just say.

1. Background (Authorship/Date) [Rob]

2. Interpretive Issues (Contradictions) [Rob]

3. Interpretive Approaches

A. Approaches to Contradictions (unity vs. disunity) [Rob]

**10 in Keiser's notes; maybe others??

B. Approaches to Message/Theme

**"vanity", "profit", "portion", "toil", "joy", "wisdom", Retribution, Fear of God, Death, nature of God (in Word Bib. Comm. by Murphy)

4.Recommended Interpretive Approach (our group's)

A. Explanation of Contradictions and Message/Theme

B. Internal Issues (structure, wordplay, etc.) [Caleb]

C. OT Bib. Theo. (Genesis & Wisdom Lit.) [Stephen]

D. NT Bib. Theo (Application, Preaching, Epistemology) [Andrew]

a plan...

I was checking out the syllabus today seeing what Keiser had listed as far as expectations for our project, and was thinking that we should probably discuss how our thoughts of presenting the material match up with what he wants. That one article he gave us on "approaches" might be really important for us to use because he listed "scholarly approaches" as a key ingredient to cover.

I emailed him what our tentative presentation plan to see what he thought and he said he needed outlines for each section to really be able to know if we were on the right tract. So, I'm just curious how you guys want to go about getting together to really formulate our plans since we only have 5 weeks to go. Tuesdays are still fine with me and I can come in as early as you guys want even if meeting at 6 or 7 would help.

What are your ideas?

some thoughts in response to Andrew's post

I love the observations you are making about wisdom coming from the fear of the Lord.

Wisdom here is not related to worldly know-how, it is sourced in God himself; it is almost as if the definition of wisdom for the God-fearer and the non God-fearer is different (which seems to be the answer to the contradiction). A God-fearer is someone who is living his life in light of the relationship he holds with God. wisdom is outside of and distant to the person who doesn't live his life in this fear, but the one who does live his life in the fear of God posseses an implanted wisdom from God.

Summed up, I really think a lot of what Ecclesiastes is talking about is the worldview of a God-fearer. The God-fearer has true wisdom, thus he can enjoy life with its good gifts so long as it is within this frame-work. Whereas to the person who is not a God-fearer, even the pursuit of wisdom (worldly wisdom that is) is emptiness, let alone the emptiness of the pursuit of pleasure or anything else that falls outside of the sphere of God-fearing. This really does carry weight for the postmodern mind.

I think the concept of wisdom parallels the concept of faith in the New Testament, which is a gift implanted by God in those who are regenerated...it is a sureness of the reliability of God that is sourced in God, not us, and changes our worldview when it is present.

Week 1- Message and Theme

I'm just adding this in here instead of a separate post below.
You should all have admin. access now to be able to make actual posts. Also, I deleted a couple replys that Rob and I made that were unrelated to the discussion, just to clear up space. Feel free to do this yourself too.


Hey guys, hopefully this is useful to communicate in this way. If it ends up not really being helpful, just be honest and we can try something else.

We can play each week ear by ear depending on what we decide to particuarly study that week. I have nothing to say regarding message/theme right now but whenever one of you do, just throw it on here as a reply.

Also if you think of any other specific areas we should cover as a group, throw those out also. I think this is where we sort of divided up stuff initially...if I'm wrong, just say so:

Rob- Apparent Discrepencies
Caleb- Internal Features
Stephen- Bib. Theo. Connection to Genesis
Andrew-Bib. Theo. Connection to NT